30.000 or 300.000 is WAY too few.be honest.

30.000 or 300.000 is WAY too few.be honest.

  
very nice system...big potential..
BUt don't you find that licincing per code line is very ,how to say,un attractive for potential custemers?
Dealing in lines of GENERATED code I find not fair just because it there is no metrics tool that can say in advance how many lines your application is going to have.. THen you run to limit and negotiating starts about one line or two tousand.Even 300 000 lines limit for enterprise editions I find too few for money you are asking. isn't it?
Hi,

The 30.000 and 300.000 don't refer to the number of C# or Java lines of code, but instead to Software Units. In the thread Software-units you can find more information about them and a table with the value spent by each element of the Agile Platform.

You can also check how many software units each eSpace is spending in Service Center, which is the web-based administration console of the Agile Platform. It's under Administration -> Licensing -> Software Units (if you have installed the community edition in you local computer the address is http://localhost/servicecenter/Software_Units.aspx)

Best Regards,
Gustavo Guerra
By way of comparison, the CMS application in the download section is just over 34,000 software units. You can get a LOT done within 30,000 SU's. My Rat Catcher application is around that size, and it does a lot. With a refactoring that I am getting ready to do, I expect the number of SUs used to go down a bit too. Hope this helps!

J.Ja
HI,
thanks for agile response;)It took some lines isn't it?

>Gustavo,
"Software units" is obscure definition of software complexity of your system.Lines of code is just one of the parameters if I read document.
.By definition it's variable and function that consists of one line of code and is called by two screens is considered to be 3 SU.In your example
something as simple as foreach loop take 15 SU!And then you advise me to go to server to check how many SU my application is .2 SU above capability?
don't worry just delete button "OK" from the form;)Nobody wil notice anyway.
>Justin
on my opinion you kind of contradicting yourself  : you are already above  limit  of free version.And if you want more?going to by PRO version?right now?
I as see you care more about SU that yuo still have(or don't have) than the completion of your application.Indeed ,I hope for you too, that refactoring will help .
btw.Application i'm working on have about hundred of screens and several layers,web front end and about 1.000.000 lines . AND still needs to be extended.can you say which formula will be enought. Really enough,not sparing on my food;)


Hi Misha,

There is always a way to predict what you are going to need to develop and deploy your application, and we can do it based on our experience and the sizing tool.

Sizing tool, basically is a list of stories and functionalities that help to define your application, and defining the patterns you are planning to develop, like the edits screens, lists, procedures. Based on that, we can estimate how many SUs you are going to need (time, the roles needed, effort) according to the Agile Methodology.

My suggestion to you is "Ask OutSystems" (the link near the search button, because i'm sure you'll have the answer you are looking for.

Cheers
RNA
HI Ricardo,
Your answer is a confirmation of my suspicion: it is a  limitation of  freedom of developper  as a result of  an aproximate estimation of space nesessary
to fulfill hard coded mission.On my costs(cost of others).Almost sure your estimationis wil be below what it otherwise be nesessary to achive goal.
Then it's easy to say oops! it's was only raw approximation and you need to buy another pack of SU en so forth en so on...
Referring me to "ask OUTSystems" you imply me going into contractual relations with your firm(am I wrong?).Your "community edition" involvement stops here as I understand.
 But  anyway I have  impression that your business model is not what will help you and any of your clients to  advance.It is too obscure and prone
to be misused .Nice toy.....Point...Out..
.Don't take it as offence.


 
Hi Misha,

in OutSystems we don't like the things obscure as you are saying...the Ooops element is something that can happen in any project in any technology, but our experience in sizing projects, is based on hundreds of projects as you can see the in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udeir7LGsOA.

We don't do raws estimations by default or by any obscure feeling, as i said in my previous post, we estimate based on patterns, if you ask for a web screen where you can edit a record , we say it's  x hours. If instead of developing 1 web screen as estimated, you design 3 then it's not something that we can control. It's on the developer hands.

Our partners and customers have access to the sizing tool, so they can make their own estimations, its not an underground tool and something we kept for us only.

Quote: Referring me to "ask OUTSystems" you imply me going into contractual relations with your firm(am I wrong?)

Yes you are, you don't need any contract to ask, at least in our company you don't :) 

If you really want to know, just ask, simple as that.

Cheers, 
RNA
I am a customer of one of the partners. I want to emphesize that this particular partner feels so secure with the sizing that they are willing to go for a fixed price project with the outcome. To get things in perspective, the sizing/estimations were put into an offer before we had a contract. Of course one has to realyze the estimations can only be as good as the input provided.